marriage,shaadi,life partner: [Kalyanam] Matrimonial problems

-------------------

I understand the problems faced by boys and girls of Brahmin Communities (Iyers')

One should not take it as a problem. Upto the age of 27 one should search in our own

community and if one cannot find from our own community , select from other community.

I f you have enough money no need to worry about anything. Marry with other community people

Be brave enough. There is no need to wait for from our own community. If you wait long time one has to remain as batchelor through out his/her life. Why to sacrifice one's life. Enjoy the fruit of life. Life is not permanent. Youth is not going to remain

visalamrajen@yahoo.com

--------------------

I am an pattar settled now in hyderabad.(??) An military Brat and also a Military guy myself we-We are 6 Bros/Sis- were shunted around all over India on postings. Our only touch with Kerala was an annual holiday in Summer hols to sweat and Swelter it out at Cochin. My parents would go yo Palghat / Kollengode / Allambalam vill / family Kaavu taking the Junior most and one another!! this was our only encounter of the village roots. We were however brought up with strict hands -Shouts/beatings and cajoling from Mother and the same with solid Belting from father for instilling Discipiline. We could pass up in any Traditional/Religious Situation -atleast the initial rounds and also able to talk comfortable pattar Tamil.  Now coming to the Real Thing -about marriage aspects - WE have all married as per our Parents' wishes and Choices. (?) I had my share of afairs and escapdes BUT did marry only as per my Parents wishes -- I asked my first Love to wait for me till my sisters were married BUT she did not. All the 3 daughters and 3 Sons are married to IYER Partners only. With a lot of Initial apprehensions and Mis-adjustments we have all adjusted to each other - of course occassional fumes do erupot and sometimes do get fanned when we sibling get together and exchange notes!! BUT get doused at the end. What I wish to say is that parents in their own way of handling their Children either impose extreme Strictness or ARE totally lax and on either case the end Result is the same.  THE KIDS START LOOKING OUT AND END UP AS TOTAL MISFITS AND SUFFER IN THE END. THIS has been the case in my inlaws side and there is a case of "Track- Cutting" in every single family of theirs. Initially they did lok at us as a bunch of misfits - strange accent of tamil / hindi- between the siblings / Strange choice of Foods / very liberal attitude  -BUT in the end when skeletons tumbled from their cupboard/s they just shut up.  It does not matter about the upbringing or te choice of Spouses but how we adapt IS WHAT MATTERS.  The Girl / Boy should be able adjust /mingle and eschew the values and traditions  and adapt/ Blend in the family surroundings and ALL WILL BE WELL.  With warm Regards and Season's Greetings to all.  Suriyanarayanan. Hyderabad . savi_raja38@yahoo.co.in

--------------------

I apologize, this is regarding thinking of our Member Mr Easwar Raghunathan. I want to know whether he is a Brahmin or Non Brahmin. I think is not of our community and that is why he has writeen that, drinking alcohol / taking Non vegetarian is not a wrong thing. First of all brahmins taking these things itself is not good apart from this he is supporting and encouring the others including ladies to follow this. We should not allow this type of non brahmins in our group.

ANANTHA NARAYANAN , Kolkata jyothical@yahoo.co.in

--------------------

Please allow me to offer my views on Sri G. Narayanan's letter "Marriage in Brahmin community"

which appeared in your columns a fortnight ago. It is reproduced below for easier reference for the benefit

of those who may have overlooked it earlier, or forgotten its contents.

If I read Sri Narayanan correctly, his main thrust starts with the rejection for marriage because of inbuilt

prejudice arising from inauspicious nakshatram or star, in his particular case 'Ayilyam', followed by horoscope

matching and what he expands as "other superstitious reasons". From there he touches on the side-effects of

marrying outside our small community, which quite naturally has prompted quite a few readers to come in

offering their comments. This may well be a sore topic in many families who are orthodox.

Here I shall restrict myself to his grouse with astrology, of which, like most others, I have some basic knowledge,

and leave those better qualified in the subject to give their more informed comments.

The internet gives the write-up below:-

"What is Vedic Astrology?

Vedic astrology is an ancient system of astrology which originated in India. This ancient science has been practiced in India for more than eight thousand years. It is called "Jyotish" in Hindi, which means the knowledge or science of light. Since Vedic astrology or Jyotish is a part (Vedanga) of Vedas (ancient Indian Hindu scripts), it is known as Vedic astrology.

Vedic astrology deals with more practical matters and one's karmic patterns.

Based on the planetary position when the person is born the chart of the individual is cast. If there are is any discrepancy in this it will result in wrong predictions. Casting involves an intimate knowledge of mathematics and astronomy

Predicting involves in-depth study of the effects of various planets when in different zodiacs.This requires lot of study of old astrology books, manuscripts and discussions with other astrologers and is much study-involved. Good astrologers also need to have at least some intuitive ability."

One can reasonably assume that any theory or hypothesis that can still be around after so many millennia must surely have some basic principles, if not relevant truths, to support it. This is the strongest case in favour of Astrology, whatever its detractors may say. I have come across an anecdote that Sir Isaac Newton, whose scientific temper can hardly be questioned, chided Charles Darwin, who had no respect and was rather comptemptuous of astrology with "I have studied the subject (Astrology) and know what I am talking about. You on the other hand have not, and are therefore not qualified to comment on it at all." Newton's opinion can hardly be totally ignored.

Some of the older generation, may remember that when small children started to lisp, some elder would begin reciting 'Aswathi, Bharani, Krittikai' down to the final "Revathi!' fairly regularly, getting the child to follow. This was the basic introduction to Astrology taught from very early age, on which the lay Hindu's life, and way of life, tended to rest.

There are any number of aphorisms and old saws, as well as customs and practices which have come down to us in the present day which served as a sort of guidepost in our younger days. As we grew older and (more western) educated, many of us may have questioned, and even rebelled, against this type of 'moodanambikai' or blind superstition, for which a rational or acceptable answer could not always be found. Why should one remove footwear outside the house before entering, when other races wear them even in the kitchen itself? And where is the particular logic in washing one's hands and feet when coming into the dwelling proper, and particularly the 'kuthikkaal' heels? Somebody will probably mention that in Greek mythology, the mightly Achilles himself was vulnerable only in his heel , and died when he was wounded there. All countries have their particular customs and superstitions, which we accept as 'quaint' while despising and deriding those in our own Hindu culture.

But to return to the question of astrological sayings, which is the basis of Sri Narayanan's letter, these are mostly in (Pattar?) Tamil, (please feel free to correct me) e.g., 'Ayilyatthu maamiyaar aashanthiyile' (the mother-in-law will pass away), 'Moolatthu maamiyaar mukkile' (the mother-in-law will have to sit in a corner, implying that she will be widowed). Other familiar common sayings like ''Chitthiraitthu appan theruvile'; "aahn Moolam arasaalum, pen Moolam nirmoolam"; "Avittathukku thavidilum panam", as well as Sri Narayanan's example "Kettai Kottai Kattum", are often quoted to support particular cases when the occasion arises.

I am not sure whether these colloquial sayings are also to be found in the other Indian languages, and especially their equivalent in the origianal Sanskrit itself, but what seems to be striking is that they all appear to have the similarity of a background of alliteration. It is possible that some incident could have been largely contributory to these catchy phrases, like for example the dreaded number 'Thirteen' and in particular 'Friday the Thirteenth' which are of particular significance to Christians.. Perhaps somebody under the star of Avittam found a way to make the worthless chaff and bran left over from husked paddy into toothpowder (palpodi) and therefore minted a fortune.

But whatever their origins, they are nevertheless very much in practical application, even among the very people who claim they do not believe in such hocus pocus. I am particularly reminded of one gentleman who was looking for a prospective bridegroom for his marriageable daughter, and apparently had me in mind. He declared, "I don't believe in astrology, matching of horoscopes, and all that bunkum. If the girl and the boy like each other, that should be enough for them to get married!" After a few minutes, he asked me casually, "What is your nakshatram?" and when I replied, 'Moolam', "Oh, appidi enna konchum kashtam!!' (Oh, then it is a bit of a problem). End of approach. Some years later, my to-be father-in-law said he was not bothered by the 'Moolam' star, and married his daughter off to me. He lived for another 45 years more.

One explanation I have heard is that as each of the 27 asterisms covers 13*20', only a particular degree may be particularly malefic, and may not extend over the entire star. However it is difficult to convince most people of such intricate distinctions. Probably the only alternative in practice is to approach a party where the relevant parent, father or mother as the case may be, has already expired, and the fear, or probability averted.

Despite some of his other comments, Sri Narayanan's frustration at not being able to find a suitable partner in the same community in spite of all his family's efforts is of course understandable, but some things happen and sometimes do not. Shakespeare wrote "Hanging and wiving go by Destiny" and perhaps the opportune time has just not arrived. To give another personal example, after three months of search when a female horoscope to match mine could not be found, a chance meeting with a family friend brought about a contact with the marriage being held, all in less than ten days. Competent astrologers should be able to advise when the likely periods of marriage will arrive, and more strenuous efforts be put in at those opportune times.

The above should to some extent at least address some of Sri Narayanan's misgivings on horoscopes and stars generally thought to be malefic, which may often hinder one's marriage prospects.

He moves on to another topic of what he perceives as prejudice against those working in the Gulf area and/or preference for those in the US.

Hopefully he will recognise and accept that this is a totally different issue altogether from the astrological factors he started out with. The parameters for moving out of India to other locations are not always governed by individual choice, or even of proximity, as he asks for justification. And it is also a highly individual choice whether or where anybody wants to go to, especially where there are often severe contstraints imposed by different governments in their choice of new immigrants,

In his letter, he also goes on to express concern that "Now days the Brahmin brides are marrying other community/other religion groom" and in fact the same thing is happening with the males as well.

This issue again has to be examined in a different context. It has already attracted attention in the past, and there are severel letters which have already come into the Forum.

Having lived for a very long time outside India, I am perhaps as keenly aware of this situation as anybody else, and hope to address the topic in another letter.

N Narayanan savitha@pacific.net.sg

=====================

A miniscule comment on a miniscule point in Sri N Narayanan's very thoughtful riposte on the woes expressed in public of an earlier contributer Sri Narayanan in finding brides for Moolam grooms, and for grooms working in the Middle East.

Sri N Narayanan mentions in passing the "dread" of Christians for the number thirteen and particularly for Friday the thirteenth.

Having studied in Christian (Roman Catholic) missionary schools during my formative years and imbibed some of their reasons for their fears, may I venture to say that there were originally thirteen and not twelve disciples. One, the thirteenth, Judas Iscariot is accused ot having "betrayed" Jesus Christ to the Roman soldiers who were huting for him to arrest him and put him up for trial for treason to Caesar who was then the Roman Emperor ruling the Jewish lands. Judas did so by kissing Jesus on the cheek (an old Jewish social custom) and so identifying him from the packed multitude of similar-looking Jews. "And does thou betray the Son of Man with a kiss?" Jesus was supposed to have said to Judas Iscariot.

Hence the abhorrence of the number 13.

Jesus Christ was said to have been executed at the desert hill of Golgotha outside the city, for treason on a Friday, now called Good Friday, a day of mourning for Christians.

So Friday the thirteenth acquired a paritcularly loathsome significance, combining the twin sins of betrayal and murder of the Son of God. (Do not ask who was the Wife of God. That is blasphemy!)

There are several more Christian/Jewish superstitions. One is that the figure 666 represents the Gates of Hell, which once entered, the soul will never return. That figure was an up-ending of the figure 999 which was a sacred symbol to the Jews and presumably had its origin in the Vedas, as quite a few of their practices were, such as washing their feet, hands and face before praying at the synagogue, practising mass recitation from the sacred scrolls, and so on.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer s_narayanaswamy@yahoo.com

--------------------------

All the write ups on the topic gives us a glimpse of the
happenings in the society about which we are practically
helpless and are silent spectators - we can do nothing about it.

To illustrate why this is so, let me narrate the story of a village
vadhyar who used to visit all the houses in the village to
console the members whenever there was a death in the family.
He made his visit worth its while by narrating principles of
natural philosophy - like death is certain once a person is born
etc etc. After a certain period of time the vadhyar's son expired (it
can as well be a daughter) and the entire village went to the
house of Vadhyar to console him. After listening to all the
soothing words of advice (they were virtually the same he used to
sermonise earlier) the Vadhyar responded:

"Aanal ithu en pullai allava ?"

In case of a girl replace word pullai.
There ends the story

PRVijayaraghavan prv380@hotmail.com

------------------

We all ought to look at how we treat marriages, be brutally frank with ourselves and clear ourselves of hypocrisy.

We were looking for a match for my sister, the match was found good and agreed to by the parents of the boy, the boy was not well qualified nor earning very well, but the family was reasonably well off and staying in chembur. The fellow was completely agreeable, but one last day the father of the boy brought one widowed old lady saying she wanted to see the girl and as expected, she said somewhere along "ponnukku aiyilyam aame", we sensed the fraud, the bloody family did not have the courtesy nor the guts, they had to rely on an old widowed woman to do the dirty work for them. And they still call themselves brahmins.

My ownself, got a match, completely believed the family, the bloody father with a chandana kurri displayed prominently, finally found that they had hidden the fact that the girl suffered from schizophrenia and it was a family affliction. When confronted the old man and his wife said no no nothing like that she only throws tantrums at times, for something that was more than 16 years of history in and out of hospitals.

So dear sirs, the whole game is about who trusts first and takes the crap, it is not about building relationships anymore. And all the elders they no longer remain the respectable elders anymore, they don't care if the marriage they solemnised and unashamedly gave aashirwadams to succeeded or not, they just find fault with the food and go home and forget all about it.

Sirs, what we live we get, just that some other good people also suffer. A brahmin by definition is one who can be brutally honest at threat to life and here we find they are perfectly willing to go to any extent to download their problems on someone's head as soon as the other blinks.

I did read a lot of self pitying stories too, but what we give is what returns, so as a community we need to sit back and think before we preach to the world around us.

==============

Brahmin will definitely get diluted fast because the girls who are academically good get lucrative job and not prepared to comprise on anything. The educated girls are looking for a boys of equal status. Brahmins means those who know the Brahman. Even I can quote one example here. I had sent the deails of my brother to a family in bangalore/chennai. To my shock i received a call stating that I should send the details only after getting in touch with them. Also it was told that her daughter is proceeding to the States next week etc. etc. what achievements my brother have got etc. etc. Nobody thinks about the ephemeral life on this planer. No amount of money, no lucrative job will help in our life on many occasions.

cp.jayraman@gmail.com

--------------------

I wish to add some more points to this problem. It is a reality and
the problem is in our hand.

1. The ratio of Brahmin Bride Vs Brahmin Groom is very wide. As per
the rough estimate by brahmin association, it is approx 50:100.
Probable reason being, brahmins are educated and during 80s, they
identified the sex of the child and aborted if they found out to be a
girl. Other castes continued later on. (till the then CM Jayalalitha
banned scanning of child). So what brahmin grooms are facing today
will be faced by everyone (all other caste) sooner.

2. Also, to give education and proper food etc., brahmins were the
first one who controlled themselves going for the second child if the
first one is a girl.

3. Most of the brahmin girl studied well. It is not the case with
brahmin boys.

4. As there is demand for brides, naturally bride will select the
best of the better brahmin grooms. So grooms with a ordinary degree
and a decent job should be ready to marry a poor & not so-well-
educated girl. (eventhough, grooms says they are ready to marry poor,
but most of the grooms tried for educated & salaried bride for better
part of their young age. If these grooms have gone for poor bride
when they were they might have got many. As they become older, they
are forced to take this decision. Even they feel as if they are
sacrificing themselves to give life to poor bride)

5. Parents of Grooms rarely spent money for marriages. Even the dont
want to advertise for their son. They just apply when they find an
advt of a bride. Even they want to save money at the cost of life of
their son. When a parent of a bride spend Rs.2000 for advt, naturally
they will select the best groom for their daughter. All parents of
unmarried brahmin groom rarely tried a suitable partner for their
son. They just call one or two brides every month and thinking that
next month few more brides will spend from their pocket for
advertisement and something will go through. All they were doing is
just make 2 or 3 calls everymonth and thinking that they are trying
very hard for their groom (Few parents i knew, purposefully
postponing the marriage of their son till 32 or 34 years just to make
sure that their life is secured. by the time, their son attain 34
years, most of the eligible brides might have married already.)

Every groom and their parents should read the article published a
brahmin matrimony.

http://www.matrihelp.com/supplyvsdemand.htm

It may give you a clear picture of the duty of the grooms parents.

Also, send your horoscope to me. let me try to circulate your profile
in my neighbourhood and relative/friend circle.

The best a parent of the groom should do is.. start searching hard
when their son attain a age of 26. Dont pretend as searching hard
till your son reaches the age of 34. For money's sake, please dont
kill your son's life.

Regards

Vijayalakshmi Radhakrishnan viji_r_krishnan@yahoo.com

---------------------

i read 4-5 letters here, now the issue is, in our community we are giving more preference for girls education, its not bad, but now thats creating problems, compared to boys girls are less, and all girls are highly educated, they looking guy educated and settled then their status, finaly they reaching and finding somebody out of our community, no complaint also for any body becz they both settled and know to live alone, so moral is in future if boys marrying somebody out of our community nobody cant blame, brahmin boys facing problem to get only brahmin girl, their door always open to marry other community and its too easy too, the real tragedy is those who engaged in our traditional duty of "pooja" not geting girls, sorry to tell all, the now many of our middle class brothers and sisters facing brahmin janmam as a burden.

Babu babuk001@gmail.com

==================

__._,_.___

Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

*********************************************************
**                                                     **
**   Exclusive iyer matrimonial @ www.ikalyanam.com    **
**                                                     **
*********************************************************
** Exclusive travel, flight deal at www.jumpoffers.com **

MARKETPLACE

From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods