======== Hats of to Mr. Ramachander. Eventhough the mail is Candid, No nonsense and touched the bottom of the problem today's grooms are facing. As i was a groom and gone through the same phase of difficulty todays grooms are facing, i wish to add few more. Groom's Parents are not understanding the following: 1. Brides are in demand. Brides rarely advertise. Even if they do, they prefer the best of the best grooms from the lot they receive through their advt. After all, they spent for their daughter. 2. Grooms parents have not realised the society is changed. Even a prospectus of an university cost more than Rs.1000. But, the parents of grooms rarely spend for their son. Just browse through the advt of brides and apply. Even though they knew, it may not fetch a desired result, still they dont want to spend a rupee for their son. Only god knows what they will do with the money without a proper life for their son. (I too got annoyed when my father approached every small time mami's who give horoscopes free of cost. Most of the brides either married or married with two kids.). Grooms parents also do not understand that they need not have to spend more than few thousand for the marriage, but the brides, its goes in lakhs. So, i plead the parents of the groom to go all out and dont leave any stone unturned. After all, you are going to spend only for advt. but parents of the bride needs to spend for the entire marriage. 3. All put together, there are more than 1 lakh bride but only 2000 are advertising in all matrimony put together. The rest 98000 brides are just browsing through ads. Its more than sufficient for them. Most of the bride's parents do not know internet. Hence, we need to take our son's profile thorough print medium too. Here comes an another matrimony service Matrihelp.com which not only publish the profile in the website, but takes the grooms profile to each and every brides home by way of free distribution of charts. They ask the groom to share a part of the expenses and the balance being shared by them. It can help all grooms incl. middle and lower middle class grooms. They are doing what google is doing in the internet search, (searching every home where a bride reside) but not so fast as google but in a phased manner. regards V Radha Krishnan v_radha_krishnan@ ---------- Your thoughts are realistic and impressive. I request you to permit to put your write up in other forums where I am a member, With best wishes, Ramachander ------------ Thanks for your email. I will be very much pleased if you can put up my words. Atleast, grooms like me (I got married recently) will get benefitted and let us awaken few parents to work little bit harder to get a bride for their son. Personal: Eventhough i earn a decent salary, my father never spent for my marriage. He used to visit nearby mamis and local astologers. Nowadays, rarely a bride is registering with them. He had wasted almost 4 years like this. By the time i realised after reading an article about the supply & demand of Brahmin Groom & bride in matrihelp.com (www.matrihelp. Conclusion: Then i realised, the main problem for most of the groom is neither their age nor their education or salary, but the laxity in the approach of parents and their unwillingness to spend even a single rupee for their son. Regards V Radha Krishnan v_radha_krishnan@ ============ nr ramachandran, there is one more pl add to this list some girls and boys are too obese and are unable to find a partner because of this and they are at no fault as it is in some genes in the family, my daughter who works in oracle with a good salary is yet to be married because of her well built stature do tell me if you come across some one who would understand this as not a handicap but to take in stride otherwise a lovely person and very versatile personality is my daughter ...regards Anon Oh, that is a pity that it comes from a male. There are enough women who will dare to write this and would have held a bigger punch. I for one would have loved to hear this from a girl, nevertheless, I do agree completely with this. From a girl, that part which says there are enough priests, whom girls drool over would have really opened up eyes of many who still live in the old-age. I do think horoscopes are to be looked at for a completely different reason, however other things like personal grooming and creating that wining mindset are very important. At the end of the day the winning mindset is what cuts thru life's challenges. Every girl will want her man atleast to brave the uncertainties of life with a smile and put a smile on her lovely face too ;-) Well articulated, Thanks. regards, Rajesh Namaskaram to all the members of this august Yahoo group. while the predicament of Brahmin youth who are not sought after by prospective brides, there are whole class of deprived families who do not have a wherewithal to get a days meal to survive.They do not certainly have money to conduct the marriage of their sons and daughters. It will be better to identify such families in everybody's neighbourhood and post it a common platform with the financial background clearly explained.Most of the prospective bridegroom s can get their better half from such a group of people who cannot advertise in matrimony sites and other marriage bureaus. There is another class of women who are divorced or widowed due to forces of nature or Karmas.They become prey to manipulators and some of them are forced to become the second family(in Tamil0 to the manipulators. mother and financially bad state.She is forced to live as as second wife to a non Brahmin Policeman because of economic compulsions and social security. Why not we take an effort to identify such cases and examine if we can arrange for a marriage with the types of people who do not get brides under normal circumstances? Let us join together and actively support the remarriage of widows and divorced brahmin women in a large scale.This requires that we have to stretch more to get data on such people and conduct periodic meet among the needy.Such an effort requires couselling too in alarge scale. This can prove to be the partial solution to the mismatch in the male /female ratio which can jeopardise the Brahmin gene pool in our country. S.R.Govindarajan Hi, While these appear intellectually very fair opinion, one must remember, as the wisdom has always prevailed, that our (specifically Hindu) elders(not over the recent past, but several hundreds or even thousands years back) have meticulously planned and laid ground rules with nothing but ONLY best wishes and intentions for their future generations with regard to marriages. I understand most reliably that it is only over the recent past that the courts in India have received large numbers of cases seeking divorce. One can also see many such advertisements claiming innocent divorcees seeking life partner. One can not attribute any other reason other than the fact that we seem to get away from the ground rules laid by our elders. Beyond all these, if one would have belief in our Sastra, these are the attributes of Kali Yuga. I wish we sincerely seek wisdom from our elders and the invaluable knowledge available with our Sashtras and win over the effects of the Yuga. ============ Nice Article. If any one gets some content on Iyer Brides. Please do write in. N.Santosh Kumar santoshkumar_ ===========
It is a well compiled article written Mr Ramachander. But he has mentioned in that Priests who are in Cities and are alone are nudged in the habit of drinking and Gambling. How to check the veracity of this statement? How many priests in the cities who are alone are indulging in Drinking and Gambling? You will not find a Pattar Priest with a Tuft in his head going to beer bar and enjoying drinks? Do we? These are personal habits of somebody and cannot be verified and hence it is better we do not generalise the same. Thanks and Regards Easwar Raghunathan. easwarraghunathan@ ------------ Let us not, ostrich like hide our heads in the sand. Truth is bitter. So let us face it. It may hurt our egos but will do the community immense good in the long run. Self introspection and self criticism is what is needed. If it hurts it is okay. Surgery is traumatic. But one undegoes the trauma for better health. I think the moderators should act like journalists of the likes of Benjamin Horniman, an Indophile khadi wearing, Gandhi capped, British journalist, who fought shoulder to shoulder with INdian nationalists for the country's freedom. He ran an English Daily in Mumbai called The Bombay Chronicle. In fact the area adjacent to Flora Fountain in Mumbai , Horniman Circle is named aftter him. His motto was "Publish and be damned". Fear not the consequences. Pattar Boys' extended, may be even indefinite and permanent bachelorhood - Deculturization is the main culprit Post my essays " Pattar boys, your girls are deserting you" and "Matrimony or Market Economy" , there have been serious discussions in this forum on why our boys are increasingly being compelled to indefinitely extend their bachelorhood status. The reasons cited are many, ranging from the fairly "low" level of "education" of our boys to the skewed sex ratio in the community, and from our girls' hormonal attraction to other communities' boys, to their new found economic superiority. All these have elements of truth but the core of the problem lies elsewhere. The community's girls are just a manifestation of this. The real problem, that I have found after a deep study, lies within the community. And this problem, though widespread in the Tamil Brahmin community, has particularly affected Mumbai's pattar community (Palakkad Iyer migrants to Mumbai). Let us introspect and look within. The blame lies with the pattar parents and their half baked, falsely superior, holier than thou attitude, the lack of any intellectual content in their lives, their dismally shamelessly poor cultural, social ignorance of all the gluttonous gregarious bhojana priya samajams that are controlled by men suddenly catapulted into relative prominence and importance within their small wells that are the various pattar ghettoes sprinkled across Mumbai city's once marshy and wild snake and jackal-infested northeastern landscape. (Lest some "alert " pattar vigilante misunderstand me and report me, tale carrying school boy like, to the Chief of the original Pattars group, saying I am anti so and so, let me clarify that the said group is not a Samajam but a Samooham headed by an illustrious man of great vision, character, erudition and class, and I have only the greatest admiration, adulation and regard for it and its founder. Wish all other gluttonous Mumbai samajams had leaders like him !!!!) So what exactly is the root cause? I will call it "deculturization" To understand this, one has to go to the roots of this problem, two three hundred years into history, to the time, when the Pattars migrated from Tamil Nadu to the welcoming, safe and secure hands of the large hearted, generous, munificent, rajas of Kollengode and Palakkad, who showered them not only with land and houses, but also ensured that their native subjects opened and kept open the doors of their harems for the migrant Tamil Brahmins. The starving , struggling, impoverished Brahmins from Pandya nadu, Chola Nadu and Naanjil Nadu must have felt like Muslim ghazis killed in jehad (holy war) entering jannat (heaven), with seven virgins waiting to welcome them with a maddening assortment of goodies and delights. The next couple of centuries found Brahmins at their gluttonous, lustful, vainful peak. Endless feasting, access to the most beautiful women in the most reputed, powerful and respected tharavadus, absence of any physical labour of any kind, money flowing from the lands they owned but did not cultivate, all kinds of services ranging from domestic help to masseurs, provided by the sweating, toiling "lower castes" and patronage by the rulers and ensconced in their exclusive agraharams, these hitherto pauperized refugees from Tamil Nadu, soon forgot their past and thought themselves as Exclusive beings, god's chosen people. Dinacharam was soon forgotten. Lust and gluttony had replaced erudition and diligence. Indulgence had smothered social consciousness. And led to arrogance, contempt for other classes of society, a feeling of superiority that was surely pseudo, a holier- than and wiser- than- thou mind set set in. Along with purity of thought, intellect and soul, purity of language, culture, heritage, tradition, social consciousness and the very human conscience not only took a beating but very soon withered away, replaced by the hollow shells of some past glory and distinction. And above all, it generated and nurtured a feeling of exclusivism, almost a kind of ghettoisation . Tell me, in all the years of their super luxurious existence in Kerala, what has been the contribution of Pattars to Malayali society? Has the community produced any single litterateur, poet, philosopher, statesman, political leaders or any other human being of any caliber who could stand up and be counted at the national or even the state or even the Palakkad district level? What are the linguistic achievements of the community. Did they master Malayalam or Tamil? NO they produced Talayalam, the most corrupt form of communication. Some learned pattar in this forum may throw a few names but let me ask does one swallow herald summer? When viewed in the light of Brahmins elsewhere who had to eke out a tough living but who have produced giants in every sphere. Just to give a simple example, almost all the great Sanskrit scholars have been Maharashtrian brahmins, ranging from Mahapodhyaya Kane to Tarak shastri Vaman Joshi,. All the leaders of the freedom movement have been Maharashtrians like Tilak, Gopal Krishna Gokhale, Ranade, etc. Major revolutionaries have been Maharashtrian Brahmins like Veer Savarkar, Chhapekar Brothers, Aadyakranteeveer Vasudeo Balwant Phadke,. These were not rich gluttonous, lustful jemmis like the pattars, but were poor struggling Brahmins. Instead of indulging in petty agraharam politicking and verbal duels, these Maharashtrian Brahmins answered the call of the Motherland and gave their all to their punyabhoomi. Even the leadership of the Communist movement was provided by Brahmins like S.A. Dange, B.T. Ranadive, Roza Deshpande, Ahilya Ranganekar, Godavari Parulekar, the last mentioned dedicating her entire life to the service of the advisais in the tribal belt of Thane near Mumbai and earning the love and admiration of millions of deprived Advisasis and the title of Goda Rani. Degeneration of the pattar community led to neglect of education, both secular and vedic, social, intellectual and cultural myopia and an existence devoid of all its former glory. But the attitudes of arrogance, false sense of superiority and feeling of being the "chosen ones" remained. And ghetto like exclusivism in the agraharams not just continued but got further intensified. The socio political scene saw the waning of the influence of the feudal rajas and zamindars and the consequent isolation and virtual excommunication of the Pattar community from the complex social milieu. A condition that was compounded by the collective hatred of the entire non Brahmin population for the wrongs, real and imagined, done to the latter over the past centuries. Landholdings of the community got fragmented and consequently downsized leaving vast numbers of pattars landless. This became worse following the ascension of the Reds to power in Kerala when the notorious Zamindari Abolition Act totally took the winds out pattar sails. Having lost their former tradition of erudition and diligence and not having acquired anything worthwhile by way of education over the centuries of their bohemian existence. Thus the thirties of the last century saw the Brahmins in a very pathetic plight. Bereft of any education, scholarship, social consciousness or awareness of the rich heritage and culture of their forefathers, pattars were a distraught lot. At the most, they could manage to pass SSLC and undergo training in shorthand and typewriting. Armed just with this, the made a bee line to India's metros, mostly to Mumbai (then Bombay). With their herd instinct intact, they clustered around places like Matunga and then moved on to suburbs like Mulund, Dombivali, Ghatkopar and Goregaon. Creating pattar ghettoes, like Bhuta Nivas in Matunga, the most glaring Mumb ai agralharam like ghetto of Endeavour in Mulund, sri Ram Nagar in Andheri and in Bangur Nagar in Goregaon. Linguistic skills, perish the thought. A broad outlook , ditto. Ability and to interact with local remained ditto;, totally aloof from the mainstream of Mumbai, they eked out a living working for British or marwari firms or government offices. They remained frozen in time. Unable to come to terms with Mumbai's multicultural milieu, they shrunk in to their shells. Poverty of linguistic skills and abilities was the stock they had brought with them from the Palakkad villages. .And in no way did they do anything to augment it. They were satisfied with just a smattering of Talayalam and a score of Hindi words?and created a new "Talayal-Hindi" As any sociologist will confirm, linguistic purity and the accompanying pride in it forms the basis of pride in one's own culture and heritage. For instance, a Bengali takes pride in his Bengali origin, language and heritage. So does a Punjabi, so does a Kannadiga, so does a Maharashtrian, so does a Gujarati and so do almost all the linguistic groups thaty make up Mumbai's complex cosmopolitan social milieu. But as observed earlier, the migrant pattars were oblivious of this. The had lost most of their heritage during the 2/3 centuries of gluttony and bohemian living in Palakkad. And Mumbai's modernity made them self conscious and inferior. Embarrassed them no end. They covered up this embarrassment by resorting to attempt to conceal their identity by conversing with each other in Hindi. At home. In the bazars. In public places. I need not repeat what kind, quality and type of Hindi they spoke. Like one of my Gujarati friends would say, "the best compliment you can pay a Madrasi is telling him, "hey you don't look like a Madrasi"" This ignorance, this inferiority complex, this linguistic pudding, these attitudes, they passed on to their children, the present day Lallies and Venkies. Poor kids, don't blame them !!! They have only inherited the cultural, linguistic, social, historical baggage from their parents. The poor kids have no identifiable linguistic, social or cultural asset worth the name that they can take pride in, emulate and develop a sense of belonging. Thus the poor Venkies and Lalis have grown up in a cultural vacuum.Without any distinct identity. Nor their pompous ponool wearing fathers do anything to enculture them, themselves bereft of any "culture" worth the name. Honestly they do not know whether they are fish or fowl, the venkies and lalis I mean. Even the little Talayalam their parents spoke, the venkis and lallis lost out in Mumbai's cosmopolitan bylanes. Thus without any distinct identifiable cultural or social bench marks, the venkies and particularly the lallies, have. no awareness of their distinct identity much less any p;ride in or sense of belonging to a distinct group. In the absence of this, they have developed a sense of commonality with a broad section of other cultural drifters in society and have assumed this common identity. With no language to be proud of, with ignorance of their unique social, cultural and spiritual heritage, disencultured as they have become, youth in the community are more at home with members of culture other than their own. And the girls in particular, fall prey to the machinations of Christians, Muyslims and other communities to enrich the latters's gene pool. The community is giving away its rich genetic heritage because of its own foolishness, its ignorance and its attitudes. And now, coming to the myriad pattar samajams that dot Mumbai's landcape, What role have they played? What kind of men run these institutions? All these have been discussed ad infinitum adnauseum in this forum. All I can now say is that these Samajams function as just houses of rituals where gluttonous feasts are thrown and care two hoots about enculturiszation, bonding and holding the community together and creating a sense of identity and belonging to the community. And the semi literate leaders running these samajams are busy holding on to their perk loaded *(free morning coffee to the last meal of the day) posts and playing petty agraharam type politics while the girls of the community are being lured away by Muslims and Christians and other communities. It is high time the community in places like Mumbai get their act right, come together to launch a mass movement to rid the samajams of these antiquated creatures and made the samajams instruments of service, social, cultural, spiritual and community enrichment to prevent the exodus of our girls from the community. Or else, the community will meet the fate of the Dodos and will be displayed in museums. Probably along with the fast dwindling Parsi community, with a muffied pattar and parsi on display with the legend "this are s the specimens of a Parsi, seth Feroze Framroze Hormusji Sodawaterbatliwala and his Pattar stenographer Shri Mukkottugramattu Shivasubramaniyam Venkataraman Iyer, who existed till the middle of the 21s century. Laxminarayan P.S. For readers who question me once again about what I have be\en doing in this regard, I would say, I have been campaigning for better things and am prepared to join or lead any movement in Mumbai towards this end. ------------ There are many girls too who are not getting married for reasons like; 1.Stars: Ayilyam, Moolam, Kettai like that, 2.not having secured jobs or no job at all; 3.not being a part of the so called modern fashioned society girl; 4.not being from affluant families ? There are are many more reasons to list out. The religeous heads and salsang samaj and madathipathis of various Ashrams should try through speaches, advices to enrich the society to eradicate the wrong notions that have krept in. I expect somebody to take up a lead to save the Pattars ( Brahmin) society from extinction. Hariharan.G ============ Starting with stating that Pattars had a superiority complex .Shri Sarma ended up saying Pattars have an inferiority complex.Great! Should one classify people on caste basis when they achieve something? And who is a Kerala iYER? Does Palghat Iyer form a separate group? Ulloor S Parameswara Iyer poet par excellence,scholar, not from Palghat.How narrow should we go? However I agree with Sarmaji that having proclaimed themselves to be Brahmins our brethren did not excel in Vedic studies or sanskrit.Whereas Nambudiris still have some Vedic schiolars left. I am all for activities outside the dining halls and Mandapams. As Krishna said the real yajna is ones' selfless duties and service to others! Santhosh Madurai =========== There have been several discussions on the issue of grooms and marriage on various Iyer (Pattar) Web Sites. Here is a response from a very silent member. Profession: Cooks, Hotelier, Priests and Business People are not the only ones who are avoided. Even once prestigious professions of Civil Servants, Advocates, Doctors etc are not much in demand. The main preferences are for IT, MBA, Engineering etc. working in the corporate sector. This is in stark contrast to Bihar where an IAS or Doctor Groom is still most coveted. Religious: There is often a tendency a groom who is perceived as being religious. However there is also avoidance of those who smoke, drink, are non-vegetarian etc. Moreover while many are not candid enough to admit it most believe in horoscopes, indeed there is no other way to fix an "arranged" marriage. Effectively grooms are expected to be modern and also not smoke, drink eat non-veg etc. North: There is a tendency to avoid grooms settled in North India. In many cases even if the young man migrates overseas as along as his parents are in Mumbai/Delhi there is a reluctance to marry such a groom. This has been discussed in the website (kalyanam). Overseas: This once coveted option is now increasingly unattractive. This has been addressed in earlier dialogue on the website (iyers123). Age: Once a prospective groom crosses 35 he becomes unattractive. However a prospective bride who herself is in excess of 30 really has little choice in the matter. The unfavourable sex ratio however places brides in a stronger position and they still have choices. Settlement: Often men wait until they believe that they are well settled in their profession and career. This may imply having a well paying and prestigious job. This is sometimes attained once they are in their mid thirties. In some ways late for the marriage market. Astrology: This does play an important part in fixing marriages. However rigid views on Moola, Ashlesha, Jyestha, Vishaka are not in place. Moreover with increased age of marriage over 28 for women and 32 for men even Mangal/Chevvai Dosha reduces in potency. In the columns there have been discussions in Iyers marrying out of caste. There are however many who finally remain unmarried even into their forties. Further there are those Iyers who do not ever want to be known as Iyers. In north India many are quite glad to be "mistaken" for a North Indian!! By A silent member of the group ============ ************ |
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